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We're just spending more and more money As as a government that we really can't Afford putting the tab on future Generations and all of that really is Bullish for risk assets Because we got a wonderful guest teasing Yeah teasing the altcoins the Thunder I Don't know if you can hear it through The mic Natalie but it is pouring Outside today and uh markets are just Rattled but welcome back to the show It's an absolute pleasure to have you on Here today we got a lot of ton we have Tons of questions for you but how you Doing well thanks for having me I don't Think we're in the same city but it was Pouring all night last night so uh I I Guess the storms are coming but I don't Think it's coming for Bitcoin I think uh Bitcoin has sunny sunny skies ahead are You in Georgia or no I'm in St Louis Okay so a couple states away but might Be still the same Thunder it's coming From your guys's you know area which is Why we're getting the rain today but we Want to ask you okay I think we've seen Almost every single interview you've Produced on your channel and there's a Lot of conversations right now about There's probably four main events that Are going to be happening in 2024 one of The biggest is going to be the interest Rate cuts and is of course as an Investing journalist that's been
Speaking to the people that have been Analyzing this for week after week at This point what does what does this mean For bitcoin's Price action is this Bearish or is this bullish with whatever The feds are going to decide to do well I think in the near term it's going to Remain pretty choppy uh but to the Upside right we do have these new ETF Products that are seeing sign Significant amounts of demand um the Last week the price was hit a little bit By the gbtc outflows but they're still More net buying than selling so I think In the short term it might be Rocky Especially given the macro factors that We have the FED did signal that they're Going to cut interest rates usually when They cut that's not a very good sign it Usually means something's going wrong in The economy and we do still have sticky Inflation so you know it's anyone's Guess what's going to happen in the Short term but I think overall what we Do have is the Fed is still um you know In trying to take take control of the Wheel in terms of fighting inflation but Inflation is ticking up higher we're in Fiscal dominance as Luke growman who was Just on my Show puts it meaning that We're just spending more and more money As as a government that we really can't Afford putting the tab on future Generations and all of that really is
Bullish for risk assets because as the Money comes out it has to go somewhere And it typically goes to equities it's Obviously going into Bitcoin um gold Recently doing pretty well too so I I Think bitcoin's going to look pretty Good this year all right now you're Bringing up the short term but I want to Highlight something on the long term and That is Kathy Wood's bold prediction of A $3.8 million Bitcoin I think uh in a Long enough time scale we all think it's Possible sure the year 2150 you know who Who knows what a can of Coke costs or a Pound of coffee beans or what one Bitcoin would cost what what is your Thoughts of a million dooll Bitcoin $3.8 Million doll Bitcoin a lot of people Think well that won't happen in my Lifetime but what would you say to that Yeah I was pretty uh pleasantly Surprised by her new bullish prediction That she mentioned at the Bitcoin Investor day originally Arc invest uh Was forecasting about a $1.5 million Bitcoin by 2030 but she said that she Upped that prediction because of all the Institutional demand that is coming in Especially with these ETF products and a Lot of Pension funds are going to be Shifting um some of their allocations to Bitcoin because of the performance it Speaks for itself so I mean I don't Think it's out of the question but I
Tend to have more um humble expectations I like to temper my uh my views on Bitcoin I mean I do think eventually it Will get to a million a coin I don't Know how long that will take but that Will also mean what is a million dollars Worth right because at the end of the Day one of the great things about Bitcoin is it protects you from the Debasement of the currency and $100 Isn't what it used to be a million Dollars isn't what it used to be look at Houses right so um I I don't know what That will mean but of course Bitcoin Will hit a million at some point yeah This comes as well like you just said it Too like they can't stop printing money At this point we had a $1 1.2 trillion Doll bill just pass it's you know this Government just can't get that budget in Wraps they can't control it they can't Stop themselves from printing more money Do you see this trend just continuing to Emerge are we ever going to see a Reduction in these bills because it Feels like every single one that comes Through is just higher and higher the Next one's going to be 1.5 then it's Going to be 2 trillion is this going to Be what pushes us to more Sovereign Nations adopting Bitcoin and could that Fall over to Kathy Wood's price Prediction of this 3.8 million because Of the inflation I do I mean this is the
Debt spiral that so many people in the Space refer to and and why they call it The Fiat Ponzi because our system Requires ever expanding credit to Produce less and less real growth and Productivity which is what's really sad And that's what's decimating the middle Class and and the working class and That's why they need a life raft like Bitcoin so yes of course they're going To have to keep spending um a lot of That's going to go to interest expense At some point you know the Buck has to Stop when the interest rates get so high That the interest rate um uh servicing Is is too much for the government They're going to have to lower it again And try to inflate it away and of course That debases the dollar crushes Everyone's purchasing power so you need To find hard scarce assets and Bitcoin I Think is the best one and it's proven Itself over the the last 15 years and With these new products I think it's Only um you know the the the sky is the The limit for Bitcoin Well speaking of debt you know we have Had a couple presidents operate our Government with a surplus I I think a Lot of younger people that's just almost Impossible to Fathom wait we pulled in More money than we spent I I didn't know That was possible I think it was almost Probably 30 years ago Clinton did it
Slick willly but at this point you know You brought up the debt are are debt Payments so high will never have a Deficit Again well if you actually look if you Look at the uh congr Congressional Budget office they Pro ejections they Are looking at an expansion of the Balance sheet and and growing debt over The next several decades which really You have to start to question how are we Going to be able to pay for that and how Is this sustainable and uh Citadel CEO Ken Griffin I just covered this on my Show he said that that's one of the Biggest underappreciated risks what We're doing especially on a global um Stage you know we are really hurting the Dollar we are hurting the ability um for People to continue to trust our currency And to continue to purchase our bonds And so who's going to have to buy them We are and we're going to have to print The money to do it and continue to Destroy purchasing power so people Really need to protect themselves this Is why I'm really passionate about Helping people understand this because So many people are going around blaming Politics and you know becoming polarized Thinking that what's to blame is whether It's red or or blue but it's not our Money is broken they need to look deeper And that's what Bitcoin kind of forces
You to do is look at the underlying System what's broken in it how how Messed up the incentives are and what Can we actually do to fix it because we Can talk about the problems all day but Let's focus on the solution so that we Can build a better future that's more Prosperous and has more opportunity for Everyone yeah people seem to forget that It's two parties under one very broken System and that kind of leads to of Course how do we move from this because Of course the Black Rock the vanguards The straight the state streets the Fidelities they've lied to us year after Year after year saying this is a moneya Laundering index that we need a risk AG That betting ourselves on this risky Asset class is only going to damage Us In the Futures yet they're turning Around and launching the very Financial Infant uh instruments that are going to Make them let's face it billions upon Billions of dollar in the future should We before or even I guess what would the Right question be here is should we be Protesting this as an industry with These asset managers coming into this or How do we adopt this without favoring Them once again and breaking the system All over again well first of all always Watch what they do not what they say um I I do think it's really interesting to See how many turnarounds there have been
Even from some of the most legendary Investors who once said um they weren't Into Bitcoin and now they are extremely For it or launching products I think That everyone who joins the Bitcoin Network and starts adopting this Technology it's a creative to the Overall network and to everyone who Holds Bitcoin I think there will be Nation states that come in Wall Street Was inevitable um but most importantly You know this was a workingclass Phenomenon that L up this is an emergent Technology from the free market no one Is imposing this on anyone top down Which is why it's so amazing and it's Not too late a lot of people think oh The Bitcoin price it's gotten away from Me look at the price of satoshi's Everyone can afford a little bit of Bitcoin starting today and it's really Important to accumulate I mean I think That this is the future I think everyone Will be eventually on the Bitcoin Standard and I think it's time for People to really be able to adopt a Technology that will make them richer And be able to save and and plan for Their Futures as opposed to the opposite Right now there is a lot of overall risk And leverage in the system and Everything is underperformed compared to Bitcoin so although it might be volatile In the short term it might be risky if
You need to make a payment in the next One month or one year to be able to you Know put everything into Bitcoin but Zoom out look over the last four five 10 Years and I think Bitcoin is really the Safest place to be and and the asset Class that everyone will be allocating Not just a small percentage but I think A significant percentage over the next Decade I think that these um money Managers and Wall Street I think they're Going to be recommending percentages up To 33% of portfolios I really really do And instead of you know focusing on the Negative I think we need to realize that There are some institutions there are Pension funds there are you know some Investors who haven't been able to Allocate to bitcoin hopefully that Changes with things like fby accounting Rules um you know evolving so that you Can actually do fair market value for For Bitcoin as opposed to just marking When it goes down in terms of the the Corporate treasuries and balance sheets I think that more and more companies Will start to allocate to bitcoin and The ETF products have just been another Avenue for certain investors to be able To invest in this space and maybe it's Also a starting point before they Actually get real Bitcoin well speaking Of a starting point for real Bitcoin uh UK just got a real amount of Bitcoin
$2.5 billion worth I don't know if you Saw that story there uh 2.5 billion Which is almost how many Subs you got Just congrats on your big new play Button make sure you subscribe to your Channel everybody but UK government just Sees $2 and5 billion dollar worth of Bitcoin just this past week what do you Think the UK government is going to do Are they going to follow us footsteps And auction this off or should they Start huddling and what would you Recommend well if they have some smart Bitcoiners working with them then Hopefully they'll recommend that the Country huddles but you know I I'm not Really sure n some nation states are Going to be behind and surprisingly we Often see the the Western Nations which I think should be at the Forefront of This type of Technology they're the ones That are sort of pushing against it and So instead we'll see some of these Developing nations like we saw El Salvador maybe move to this uh monetary Standard first but again whoever adopts It first will benefit more that doesn't Mean that you don't benefit if you adopt It seven years from now but if you adopt It now it's certainly going to be a lot Better and El Salvador is a perfect Example of that yeah and you had the Opportunity to recently interview Michael sailor here who has talked about
Becoming a Bitcoin development company So of course there is the underlying Asset of Bitcoin itself but we're seeing More and more companies such as Marathon Digital uh announced their Bitcoin side Chains their layer tws their slipstream Services to offer of course better Transaction for their mol providers do These ordinals and all this new Adoption That's coming within the system do you Have any insight from that hourong Interview about where the development is Heading for bitcoin's ecosystem and all Of these different Payment Solutions all I know is that the Ecosystem is very robust and growing I Mean we had basically a two-year bare Market and a lot of people just focused On building during that time I was able To meet a lot of different companies Many of them actually focusing on the Lightning Network so that they can Empower Bitcoin to be a very secure Transaction Network I think this is Going to be really important especially For businesses I mean when zoom out the Cyber security of a nation is our Businesses being able to securely Transact with one another globally and With all of the risks that exist in a Digital economy with denial of service Attacks and Ai and and all of that we Need a trust Network and Bitcoin is that Valuable trust Network and so Michael
Sailor is certainly taking advantage of The Bitcoin Network in that way I know a Lot of companies also are there are a Lot of amazing people that are just Trying to build um up with ideas doing Incubators like wolf in New York and and Others and so I think it's really Exciting and when we you know fast Forward 5 10 years I can't even imagine How many companies will exist in this Space including more killer apps where You can you know just make it very easy And convenient for people to have Bitcoin wallets um be able to safely Store their Bitcoin in self- custody Which I think is really important and be Able to transact with one another as a Medium of exchange well I I have a Followup on that Bitcoin dii ecosystem Because there's a large Financial system the benefits the few at The expense of the many so you know let Let the market speak for itself let Things that are meant to fail actually Fail and not be bailed out and let the Things that win you know rise to the Surface and that'll be based on quality And value and Merit I think and what do You mean by the financial system is Failed just for everybody that's new That's coming to these markets because I Think you know sometimes we forget that There's a whole world out there that's Not a part of crypto and as soon as they
Come into these markets they see Bitcoin Hitting $60,000 they see it hitting $70,000 that's when they finally decide To make that decision to enter the Market and a lot of times Unfortunately They come into tops of cycles and end up Hurting themselves so what is it about Bitcoin that is so just beautiful in This absence of a failing system what is That failing system and again what does That failing infrastructure look like to You yeah so I think it's really Important for people to take some time And study the history of money because What we what we do see is the rise and Fall of Empires all of which at some Point were the global Reserve currency Because there's so much power and Privilege that comes with being able to Issue a currency and every nation state Issues a currency right but there is one That is the most powerful and we've Certainly had so many advantages Globally by being the the global Reserve Currency I don't think that's going to Be the case for the next hundred years Because I see Fiat overall as a failed Experiment since we've deeg it from Anything of real value anything uh like Gold we used to be on the gold standard And when you remove any tether to the Real world and something that actually Is backing the currency like with gold Then I think you you move into a system
Where again someone is printing the Money they have to continue to issue Credit and issue more and more dollars And uh and and the working class is who Really pays for that because the money With the cantelon effect it pulls at the Top the people that are the most Creditworthy the big corporations the Wealthy they see the money first it Benefits you if you're close to the Money printer at the expense of everyone Else who continually sees their currency Debased what's great about Bitcoin is a Lot of people say it's backed by nothing Well actually it's backed by energy and You can't cheat energy right that's why The the network is immutable no Transaction has ever been reversed or Needed to be reversed in that sense Because it is the truth Network that When you send something from here Globally around the world it will be Final settlement it's not cred it's not Anyone's liability it's not an IOU which Is completely different from the system We currently reside in and so I think That's why this paradigm shift is so Hard for so many people to understand Because we live in a system based on Credit where people issue money Including Banks money that does not Exist that wasn't deferred savings it's Just made out of thin air and devalues Everyone else's units or dollars or
Whatever currency and Bitcoin is Fundamentally different it is no one's Liability it is tied to energy it is the Most powerful computing Network in the World and it's based on real value I Think it's going to level the playing Field when it comes to our economic Activity which is really the base layer Of all of human interaction around the Globe yeah I have to completely agree With that I think there's two ways you Can make a lot of money coming up into This next century and that is either Become a politician and be lobbied uh Because that's obviously the easiest way To print money or actually build and Become a part of bitcoin's ecosystem Natalie it's been an absolute pleasure Having you on today and thank you so Much uh for joining us and congrats Again on all success on your channel Well thank you so much and that's the Whole point of Bitcoin decouple the Power from these politicians who just Enrich themselves if they couldn't print Money they wouldn't be able to do that As easily so that's why I'm for Bitcoin Thanks for having Me
